On a one-day visit to Pune last week, , spoke to TOI on bilateral relations, including concern over the United Kingdom's new immigration policy and its impact on students' visas and jobs. "The new (visa) rules are aimed at curbing entry to the UK for those students who are after low-end courses. The rules will not impact genuine students going to universities and colleges in the UK," he said. Stagg, who was on his fourth visit to Pune, was impressed by the city's rapid transformation. Excerpts from the exclusive interview.
Q: How do you assess Pune's transformation as an investment destination?
A: The city seems to get bigger and busier every time I come back. The scale of new buildings, new campuses are remarkable and I believe it is a continuing trend. Companies like are here, above all, because of the educational quality the city has to offer. The trajectory of attracting an increasing number of high-end employers will continue.
Obviously, there is a challenge for the (Pune municipal) corporation to keep the infrastructure of the city progressing at the same speed at which the city's businesses are moving. Pune has grown rapidly in the last 15 years. What hasn't changed is people's big appetite to do more to take the city upwards. The education strength seems to be sustaining this growth.
As I see, the two main impediments to India's growth are infrastructure and skills. The infrastructure challenge is in Pune as it is in most places. On the skills side, the city is still producing high quality graduates. This provides good prospects of growth.
Q: Your views on the UK's engagement with a known education hub like Pune
A: We think we are very well placed to be a partner to India in overall terms and in specifics of Pune/Maharashtra. This is mainly because our higher education system is very similar to India's. We have a system which is largely public sector. Although, we feel there is an exaggerated worry in India, that if they allow foreign education providers (FEPs), they will make money quickly at the expense of Indian students. Most public funded universities in the UK are not money-making institutes.
We are positioned quite well in terms of relations between research and business. The UK has quite a good balance where most universities produce a degree of research done tailor-made for business. The UK government spends $ 4 to 5 billion a year on research in universities and that fits well with the Indian government's interests vis-a-vis collaborations and joint research.
Q: How would you assess the ongoing reforms in Indian higher education vis-a-vis FEPs ?
A: It is for the government of India to determine the pace of reforms but, given the ambition to change things on a very rapid scale, which is being articulated by India's senior ministers, there is a need for shaping a transparent regulatory and legal environment at a reasonably rapid pace. India has set an ambitious programme of establishing a large number of universities and institutions including the innovation universities, and a skill development programme by 2022. It is not realistic to expect an organic growth. There is a real opportunity for transformation if they can strike a sensible balance between India's interest and that of the FEPs.
Q: The UK's minister for science and education David Willets has acknowledged the need for greater two-way flow of students between India and the UK. How do you see this happening?
A: There are two main routes to achieve this. We feel more British students coming to India will be good in terms of having a richer mix of students, who have an understanding of how India works, the Indian approach to life and how business is done in India.
The first route is to get UK universities to send their undergraduate students to Indian universities for studying a part of their course. The challenge for the UK government is that the universities are highly autonomous and have their own resources to decide on such opportunities. What we need is a measure of advocacy to see that such initiatives take place.
The second route is getting Indian and UK universities set up joint schools or institutions with campuses, buildings and faculties in India. This requires the Indian government to be more open. Much would depend on what legislation the government finally produces vis-a-vis the road for FEPs and how education is regulated.
For now, there are all sorts of crossovers with regards to the regulatory environment. We expect our institutions to be subjected to the same rules as that for Indian institutions in general. However, for brand conscious universities in the UK, they have to be fully confident about their association and ought to have a clear idea about issues like who is in charge of the curriculum, who is in charge of faculty selection, student selection etc.
Q: The UK government's tightening of immigration rules including reduction in student visas for non-EU applicants has raised concerns relating to education and jobs in the UK.
A: One has to view this in context with the present UK government's commitment when it went into elections. There were issues as to what the government would do about immigration. I think there is no easy or perfect way to tackle such matters.
However, in terms of education, what we have found is that we were getting a lot of people coming to the UK for very low-end courses, which did not make any economic sense. I mean, either they were being foolish to waste their money, which is bad, or were going to get work in the UK. That too is illegal and bad.
In 2008, we issued 20,000 students visas and the numbers rose to 57,000 visas in 2009 before coming back to 30,000 visas in 2010. In 2009, we had changed the rules a bit and found out that we got it wrong.
With the new immigration rules, we believe we will continue to get comfortable numbers, may be rising number of genuine students going to universities and colleges and that seems to be happening.
As for jobs, we have excluded intra-company transfers, which, otherwise, fitted more in the interest of the software companies. Now, we are doing it on more specific terms. Yet, there is no evidence so far to show that the changes would affect anyone.
In fact, the number of visa applications we received in April/May this year is 20% more than the applications received in April/May last year. We are facing complaints that visas are not being issued as fast as they would like. We have had a consultation exercise on this with the Indian government but there is no evidence as of now to show any signs of demand/supply issue.
Q: How do you see the India-UK relations progressing?
A: The picture is pretty positive. There is a government that has given special place to India in its plans. Prime Minister David Cameron's visit (in July 2010) and the ensuing joint initiatives show this.
Counter-terrorism initiatives are a good example of this. The Indian government will be proud of what they achieved in terms of running a safe and successful 2010 despite lots of background noise. We believe we have contributed in a range of way to that success both on the intelligence and practical policing aspect. We are looking to take this forward to a more long-term strategic planning rather than being a one-off effort. We are interested in context of the Olympics, next year.
Counter-piracy and freedom of movement in the Indian Ocean are going to be two other crucial issues. Both, India and the UK, rely heavily on hydro carbon imports from West Asia. It is in our interest to see that the sea links are kept open. The scourge of piracy emerging from and East Africa also needs to be tackled. We are working closely on this.
On the military front, the armed forces from both the countries share very good relations. Recently, we had a joint counter insurgency exercise, which is crucial given our commitment in Afghanistan. Both, the UK and India are keen on having an that is reasonably stable, reasonably democratic and well-governed.
Q: How do you assess the UK's engagement with in the context of the global war against terrorism and the attacks on India originating from across the border?
A: In our case, we have never been involved in the supply of large- scale military equipment to Pakistan. The main UK engagement with Pakistan army is in what we call the COINT i.e. counter insurgency training, which is very much aligned with India's interest. Pakistan's significance in finding a long-term solution to the Afghan problem also needs to be viewed in context of the areas along the Durand line that run a major risk of being safe haven for terrorists and insurgents.
Q: How do you assess Pune's transformation as an investment destination?
A: The city seems to get bigger and busier every time I come back. The scale of new buildings, new campuses are remarkable and I believe it is a continuing trend. Companies like are here, above all, because of the educational quality the city has to offer. The trajectory of attracting an increasing number of high-end employers will continue.
Obviously, there is a challenge for the (Pune municipal) corporation to keep the infrastructure of the city progressing at the same speed at which the city's businesses are moving. Pune has grown rapidly in the last 15 years. What hasn't changed is people's big appetite to do more to take the city upwards. The education strength seems to be sustaining this growth.
As I see, the two main impediments to India's growth are infrastructure and skills. The infrastructure challenge is in Pune as it is in most places. On the skills side, the city is still producing high quality graduates. This provides good prospects of growth.
Q: Your views on the UK's engagement with a known education hub like Pune
A: We think we are very well placed to be a partner to India in overall terms and in specifics of Pune/Maharashtra. This is mainly because our higher education system is very similar to India's. We have a system which is largely public sector. Although, we feel there is an exaggerated worry in India, that if they allow foreign education providers (FEPs), they will make money quickly at the expense of Indian students. Most public funded universities in the UK are not money-making institutes.
We are positioned quite well in terms of relations between research and business. The UK has quite a good balance where most universities produce a degree of research done tailor-made for business. The UK government spends $ 4 to 5 billion a year on research in universities and that fits well with the Indian government's interests vis-a-vis collaborations and joint research.
Q: How would you assess the ongoing reforms in Indian higher education vis-a-vis FEPs ?
A: It is for the government of India to determine the pace of reforms but, given the ambition to change things on a very rapid scale, which is being articulated by India's senior ministers, there is a need for shaping a transparent regulatory and legal environment at a reasonably rapid pace. India has set an ambitious programme of establishing a large number of universities and institutions including the innovation universities, and a skill development programme by 2022. It is not realistic to expect an organic growth. There is a real opportunity for transformation if they can strike a sensible balance between India's interest and that of the FEPs.
Q: The UK's minister for science and education David Willets has acknowledged the need for greater two-way flow of students between India and the UK. How do you see this happening?
A: There are two main routes to achieve this. We feel more British students coming to India will be good in terms of having a richer mix of students, who have an understanding of how India works, the Indian approach to life and how business is done in India.
The first route is to get UK universities to send their undergraduate students to Indian universities for studying a part of their course. The challenge for the UK government is that the universities are highly autonomous and have their own resources to decide on such opportunities. What we need is a measure of advocacy to see that such initiatives take place.
The second route is getting Indian and UK universities set up joint schools or institutions with campuses, buildings and faculties in India. This requires the Indian government to be more open. Much would depend on what legislation the government finally produces vis-a-vis the road for FEPs and how education is regulated.
For now, there are all sorts of crossovers with regards to the regulatory environment. We expect our institutions to be subjected to the same rules as that for Indian institutions in general. However, for brand conscious universities in the UK, they have to be fully confident about their association and ought to have a clear idea about issues like who is in charge of the curriculum, who is in charge of faculty selection, student selection etc.
Q: The UK government's tightening of immigration rules including reduction in student visas for non-EU applicants has raised concerns relating to education and jobs in the UK.
A: One has to view this in context with the present UK government's commitment when it went into elections. There were issues as to what the government would do about immigration. I think there is no easy or perfect way to tackle such matters.
However, in terms of education, what we have found is that we were getting a lot of people coming to the UK for very low-end courses, which did not make any economic sense. I mean, either they were being foolish to waste their money, which is bad, or were going to get work in the UK. That too is illegal and bad.
In 2008, we issued 20,000 students visas and the numbers rose to 57,000 visas in 2009 before coming back to 30,000 visas in 2010. In 2009, we had changed the rules a bit and found out that we got it wrong.
With the new immigration rules, we believe we will continue to get comfortable numbers, may be rising number of genuine students going to universities and colleges and that seems to be happening.
As for jobs, we have excluded intra-company transfers, which, otherwise, fitted more in the interest of the software companies. Now, we are doing it on more specific terms. Yet, there is no evidence so far to show that the changes would affect anyone.
In fact, the number of visa applications we received in April/May this year is 20% more than the applications received in April/May last year. We are facing complaints that visas are not being issued as fast as they would like. We have had a consultation exercise on this with the Indian government but there is no evidence as of now to show any signs of demand/supply issue.
Q: How do you see the India-UK relations progressing?
A: The picture is pretty positive. There is a government that has given special place to India in its plans. Prime Minister David Cameron's visit (in July 2010) and the ensuing joint initiatives show this.
Counter-terrorism initiatives are a good example of this. The Indian government will be proud of what they achieved in terms of running a safe and successful 2010 despite lots of background noise. We believe we have contributed in a range of way to that success both on the intelligence and practical policing aspect. We are looking to take this forward to a more long-term strategic planning rather than being a one-off effort. We are interested in context of the Olympics, next year.
Counter-piracy and freedom of movement in the Indian Ocean are going to be two other crucial issues. Both, India and the UK, rely heavily on hydro carbon imports from West Asia. It is in our interest to see that the sea links are kept open. The scourge of piracy emerging from and East Africa also needs to be tackled. We are working closely on this.
On the military front, the armed forces from both the countries share very good relations. Recently, we had a joint counter insurgency exercise, which is crucial given our commitment in Afghanistan. Both, the UK and India are keen on having an that is reasonably stable, reasonably democratic and well-governed.
Q: How do you assess the UK's engagement with in the context of the global war against terrorism and the attacks on India originating from across the border?
A: In our case, we have never been involved in the supply of large- scale military equipment to Pakistan. The main UK engagement with Pakistan army is in what we call the COINT i.e. counter insurgency training, which is very much aligned with India's interest. Pakistan's significance in finding a long-term solution to the Afghan problem also needs to be viewed in context of the areas along the Durand line that run a major risk of being safe haven for terrorists and insurgents.
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